12 responses to “Notes from New Sodom: Down in the Ghetto at the SF Café”

  1. Fabio Fernandes

    Masterfully done, Hal! Your text is a flash of lightning and a sound of thunder! (I was just reading Chip Delany´s The Jewel-Hinged Jaw a couple of days ago – both of you rock my world, you sensational sodomites! :-)

  2. Keith Rawson

    From one newbie BSC contributor to another, welcome aboard, and by the way, great column!

  3. Sue Burke

    You can read my ongoing translation of Amadis of Gaul from Spanish at http://amadisofgaul.blogspot.com

    Romanticism was an 19th century movement, by the way, and the Enlightenment occurred in the 18th century (and bypassed Spain). The conflict between Amadís and Quijote had to do with other essential literary issues.

  4. Hal Duncan

    A fair point, Sue, and doubly fair given my stance on Science Fiction versus science fiction. I’d argue, though, that it’s fair to look at Cervantes as a benchmark of where modernity begins (similarly Caravaggio in the visual arts) in the schism between the two aesthetics those movements/ideologies/cultures eventually form around, and that those two aesthetics predate the Namings. Quixote is the opening salvo in the conflict between them is the point.

    But, yes, we’re actually dealing with the end of the Renaissance and the beginning of Modernity, while the Enlightenment is still nascent, gestating. I prefer an early date for its birth though, with Descartes’ Discourse on the Method, which is only three or so decades after Quixote.

  5. steve davidson

    Excellent piece! I’d only add one thing to tie it more firmly into the current era. You described the evolutionary process as “expansion, diffusion, isolation, specialisation” to which I would add – “branding, niche marketing, dilution, dissolution”

  6. Tim

    So… could Frankenstein be more like the MC5?

  7. s johnson

    If you insist on identifying science fiction as a pulp genre, since the pulps are pretty much dead, the pulp genre of science fiction must be dead with them.

    Saying something is a mystery or romance tells you what kind (genre) of story you’re reading in a way that saying it’s science fiction doesn’t. Any consistent usage of genre just doesn’t fit. “Genre” as the opposite to literary fits actual usage but is too inconsistent to clarify thinking. Instead it confuses it. Which may be the function?

    The opposing equations of Gothic=Romantic=sensationalist=popular=genre vs. realist=rationalist=?=highbrow=literary have, as you can see when it’s laid out in formula, a missing term. Is that because the distinction between the masses’ crude sensationalism and the non-masses’ notion of interesting or engaging or whatever lies in class viewpoints?

    Last, the notion that Dune is about thrills is belied by the whole of Dune Messiah. The notion that the Foundation stories are not about the sublime vistas of history is puzzling.

  8. Hal Duncan

    I’m identifying Science Fiction as a pulp genre, not science fiction.

    The word “genre” has no consistent usage, hence the distinction between genre as openly-defined aesthetic idiom (as, say, the novel) and Genre as closely-defined literary/commercial form (as, say, the Sonnet). Why “genre” has also come to stand, in and of itself, for a territory of fiction — Genre in opposition to Literature — and how this confuses the debate is a subject for another column.

    Which will indeed touch on class, since the function of that particular naming is abjection. Your missing term is “intellectualist”, by the way.

  9. Damon Cap

    Don’t want to derail, just wanted to give Hal a quick Hello. Now back to your regular programming.

  10. s johnson

    “Intellectualism” as “the distanced narrative of the observer, commentator, critic…observation and commentary… equated with relevance and insight,” isn’t the same kind of term as sensationalism. I can think of examples of sensationalism, even try to separate it from pejorative intent. But I can’t think of examples of intellectualism. The common pejorative for the opposite of sensationalism is “boring.” Which I suppose might be dubbed as “serious” by some.

  11. Jim Steel

    Hm. Anyone who says that the Velvet’s ‘Sister Ray’ was an original creation is willfully ignoring The Seeds’ ‘Evil Hoodoo’ from their first album in ’66. And the rest it matches the Ramones for punk rawk and came out a whole decade before da brudders’ first disc. I’m just saying that there’s always an earlier step. Aside from that, I can’t fault you. Except for Emily Bronte. Her sprawling gothic tragedy a romance? Nah. Shift it into the horror catagory.

    Already looking forward to the next column.

  12. Styx

    I think I have died an gone to heaven. A serious discussion of the nature of science fiction using Punk as the metaphor!

    That said, as an aside, there was a third home for the origin of punk. Australia. Exhibit A, The Saints.

    What I see in the link between science fiction and punk (and jazz for that matter as discussed by Amis) is an attitude and relationship between the artists and the fans, who become artists, who remain fans.

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