Playin’ with Ice and Fire: A Game of Thoughts: Catelyn, Eddard, Daenerys (Chapters 34-36)

She’s new, she’s the re-re-reader.  She’s the nubile newbie, she’s the spoilery vet.  Together they’re g-mashin’ George R.R. Martin’s A Game of Thrones and getting their POV on.  Today they react to Chapters 34-36:  Catelyn Stark, Eddard Stark, and Daeneyrs Targaryen chapters.

Elena-

We are restructuring this re-read in order to be able to finish it and move on to the next book before Season 2 of the show picks up, so instead of doing one chapter per post we are moving to three chapters per post. There may be a couple posts with wiggling as we try to figure out the best approach to take; the one I am starting with is to discuss the main elements of the chapters as I see them and the smaller moments that I enjoyed too much to skip, and any big-picture revelations or conspiracies that surface in light of the new information. Obviously there will not be quite as much time spent on each chapter, but to some extent I feel like we were already repeating ourselves, so this will allow us to focus on the current developments.

With that being said, let’s jump in.

 Chapter 34 – Catelyn

So the overridingly main moment in this chapter is: Bitch be crazy. Obviously I was very, very wrong about Lysa maybe not being crazy so much as inconvenient…no, bitch be crazy. Jesus. I almost felt sorry for Catelyn here, as she gets all the way out to the ass end of nowhere with six men dead because of her choice, already doubting her conclusion that Tyrion was guilty, only to discover that her sister is unhinged and irrational and royally pissed off that she’s there. “They were your quarrels first sister. It was you who sent me that curse letter.” “To warn you, so you could stay away from them! I never meant to fight them!” Oops.

Although, to Cat’s credit, Lysa’s an idiot for thinking she could hide in the Vale and never be bothered. The Lannisters might wait until young Robert Arryn is a little older and more of a potential threat, or they might wait until Cersei succeeds in killing Robert and getting Joffrey on the throne and the North married in to keep them from rebelling, but if there was ever a whisper of the Vale breaking away or resisting them, their mountain wouldn’t save them. So what was she going to do, simply live out her life there and never leave again? Seems less appealing when she’s there from fear and not from choice, as Ned would be if he just stayed at Winterfell toodling around.

And what happens if your support system gets wrecked? Sure, the castle has a granary as big as Winterfell’s…but once that’s done, it’s over. They’re seven towers on a fucking mountain. They rely on the people who live lower down the mountain to bring them food, and it kind of seems like the three under-castles do, as well. All the Lannisters (or anyone else) have to do is have the patience to starve them out. I would guess the reason no one ever conquered the Vale is more because whatever conflict was going on ended before they ran out of food, but…if one is really determined, that’s how you do it. Burn the valley, Sherman style, or overrun it with your own troops and let them feed at will, and sit at the bottom and laugh. Why bother storming the castle(s) when all you have to do is wait for them to kill themselves?

Anyway, interesting history lesson and architectural design there.

Also interesting(ish) was Cat’s personal history about her uncle. Mostly it was a reminder that Littlefinger had been raised with them as her father’s ward. Oh, and the reminder that the Vale was where Ned had done his fostering, with Jon Arryn.

I don’t know where Cat goes from here, now that she’s at the Eyrie and realizes her sister has nothing but her own paranoia with which to “prove” anything, and already having doubts about Tyrion’s guilt (which was a hilarious moment where’s she’s like “Damn, he’s not acting guilty. Maybe he really didn’t do it…NAH”). I don’t know that she has any choice but to see things through at this point, because unless Lysa would give her an escort there’s no way she’s getting back to the Kingsroad with the few men she has left.  Well, actually, I guess she can send Ned a raven and be all, “Honey, I flubbed this one, please come rescue me” but THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN BECAUSE SHE CAN’T ADMIT SHE WAS WRONG.

Okay, so let’s talk about the other riders who all got killed on the way there. They were just faceless guardsmen, even if they did have names. They are the Ensign Rickys of Westeros. Lolz.

I found the mood in the Vale a good setpiece for later on, maybe, that the Vale is angry at Robert Arryn not being named the new Warden of the East after his father (oh, and yes, speaking of him, holy shit that was creepy to have a six-year-old still breastfeeding. That is all…I just…I can’t.  So that is all).

The moment between Cat and her uncle where they talk about the RIGHT woman being able to rule made me laugh. Is Catelyn that woman, as he implies? Cause I sure don’t see her staying the fuck back in Winterfell and actually RULING the way she was asked to so much as running around the kingdom starting wars….

Other quick moments:

Jesus, woman, let that bastard thing GO already.

Speaking of Mya Stone: Catelyn’s assessment of her prospects = what Catelyn would do if one of her sons tried to marry a bastard girl. She is clearly not a meritocrat the way the Black Brothers are, nor can she be, because that would undermine the entire social structure that gives her existence any meaning–and the existence of her daughters. (Is this also in part why she hates Jon Snow so much, because he is so capable and has so much potential to rise as high as her younger sons?) So despite the fact that in a place like the Vale a Mya Stone would probably be a more beneficial wife than someone like Catelyn—or, even worse than that, SANSA—that young man’s mother will probably not allow it. Unless she’s a Vale girl and aware that what is more useful is better than what is socially important for their isolationist lifestyle.

Oh, look, Catelyn finally remembers Rickon exists!

Tyrion continues to undermine her authority (you have to say it like Cartman, authoriTIE), and is generally awesome: “The dwarf had been whetting the edge of his axe and making some mordant jest…” / “The little man was more cunning than she liked.” / “The Arryns must not be overfond of company.” HA / “And I charge you to bring the prisoner a cup of wine and a nicely crisped capon.”

Tyrion’s Axiom of the Week: “We Lannisters do have a certain pride.”

The last thing I want to bring up from this chapter rolls over into the next nicely. Lysa’s rejoinder about Jon Arryn’s last words: “The seed is strong, he told me. His last words. He kept saying Robert’s name, and he grabbed my arm so hard he left marks. Tell them, the seed is strong. His seed. He wanted everyone to know what a good strong boy my baby was going to be.” Except, no, Jon Arryn was saying Robert Baratheon’s name, meaning his seed, not Jon Arryn’s own little sprout Robert the younger.

But we the readers (1) know who Jon Arryn meant and (2) get this nice little reminder right before we go into

 Chapter 35 – Ned

and HE STILL HASN’T PUT IT FUCKING TOGETHER OH MY GOD HOW LONG CAN THIS SINGULAR EPIPHANY POSSIBLY FUCKING TAKE? We have Jon Arryn studying genealogy charts, Robert junior in the forge who’s his spitting image, this baby with black hair and Robert’s nose, and Robert and Cersei’s first son who had black hair…DUDE. I don’t even need you to figure out the twincest at this point, just the fact that Robert’s chirren’s ain’t really his.

THAT is the “it must be more than that [bastards exist] for them to kill him.” Yes. THE SEED IS STRONG OMG OPEN YOUR EYES.

Other big moments:

Lyanna. Didn’t. Want. Robert. Wooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. (Don’t worry, we come back to this. On my first pass I was just surprised by it, because we’ve only really had Robert’s point of view on her—I lurved her—and Ned’s “bro, you didn’t really know her,” but nothing about HER feelings. Now we do. That’s a perspective-shifter. Oh, and how shit sifted. But, again, later.)

OMG JAIME LANNISTER, YOU ASSHOLE! YOU KILLE JORY! YOU…YOU BASTARD! (Kyle style.) That is all. That was just mean.

Small moments:

“It might have taken us years to find this brothel without you.” Mm, more like never.

Speaking of Littlefinger, how hilarious is he here? “Brothels are a much sounder investment than ships, I’ve found. Whores seldom sink, and when they are boarded by pirates, why, the pirates pay good coin like everyone else.” Yes. I would chuckle at my own wit, too, if I said that.

Robert dishonoring some relatively high-born girl at his brother’s wedding…what an asshole.

I agree with Ned, I totally believe Cersei would kill off a mother and babies if they were in her father’s holding.

Why does Ned lie about Tyrion’s capture? Solidarity…family is the most important thing, I guess—that was all I could figure at first. Then I realized it would only make him look weaker to be all, “Yeah, my headstrong wife just sorta did that, sorry bro, let’s take a buddy road trip and calm her shit down, how about that?” WASN’T GONNA HAPPEN.

At least Jaime is smart enough to not “chance my brother’s life on a woman’s honor.” Yeah. Something tells me Catelyn might just go for blood first and think it through later, so it was probably a good thing. I don’t want to risk Tyrion’s life on her ability to maintain her rationality in the face of “Kingslayer just killed Ned” rage/grief/guilt.

So let’s go back to Lyanna and Robert. Ned’s self-proclaimed curse is that he keeps his vows. While he’s on this subject, “He thought of the promises he’d made to Lyanna as she lay dying, and the price he’d paid to keep them.” Okay…no idea what those promises are.

Then, a handful of sentences later: “Riding through the rainy night, Ned saw Jon Snow’s face in front of him, so like a younger version of his own. If the gods frowned so on bastards, he thought dully, why did they fill men with such lusts?” It’s like he doesn’t understand it, doesn’t get it, doesn’t know from experience…which would mean he…didn’t sire Jon Snow? But but…wait a second. If Jon’s not Ned’s bastard, then whose? Not his dead older brother’s or Benji’s, since he came back with the baby from wartimes…leaving Lyanna. Who he was just thinking about in terms of deathbed promises and prices paid to keep them.

Didn’t her sick room “smell of blood and roses” and yet supposedly she died of a fever? WAS IT A PUERPERAL FEVER? There was that wildness in her that somehow led to her death, and she looks like Arya who looks like Ned who looks like Jon…and she didn’t want Robert….Did she run off with someone else rather than marry him? WAS IT RHAEGAR? (Wasn’t he married? Guess that didn’t stop true love.) Hm. That…might explain Robert’s inexplicable hatred of the dead prince. And it would explain why the hell Ned randomly starts wondering “if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not.” Which is just made of WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING unless Ned knows something we don’t know, while we’re on the subject of bastards, like maybe that his sister would rather run away with a married dude who didn’t like whores than marry a man who did.

Wow. That…fits. Like it makes so much more sense than that Ned had sired the boy himself, and makes Catelyn’s hatred of Jon and residual anger at his existence actually tragic instead of just stupid. That’s the price Ned has paid, having the mistrust of his wife and having to let Jon get shat on by her in order to protect the boy’s life.

Damn. That’s…interesting. It’s one of those “OMG Professor Snape was in love with Harry’s mother!” moments that just seems so utterly perfect that there’s just no possible way it isn’t the case. Maybe not the Rhaegar bit but at least that Jon is Lyanna’s bastard and not Ned’s.

Wow. Okay. That was heavy.

My brain hurts now so we’re gonna hit the last section quickly.

Chapter 36 – Daenerys

Big moments here:

[crickets chirp]

There’s really nothing game-changing in this chapter. It’s a lot of Dothraki culture, and the rest is Dany waking up to the fact that her brother is not just useless but a danger to himself. Her moment of standing up to him was not as dramatic as it was in the TV version (sorry to make the comparison! But this one was undeniable).

It’s still kind of hard for me to care about Dany as a character at this point in the book, and it’s not helped when the bulk of her chapter is spent on history and culture lessons.

Ser Jorah was kind of awesome here, though, shit-talking Viserys (“he could not sweep a stable with ten thousand brooms”—ha! Nice one, Jorah) and his speculation on what would happen if the Dothraki invaded Westeros, his statement that “Robert should have been born Dothraki” which is one of the more insightful comments about the man I’ve seen, his burning hatred for Ned because “he took from me all I loved, for the sake of a few lice-ridden poachers and his precious honor.”

(Ah, yes, Ned’s honor…his own wife isn’t spared its edge, motherfucker, what makes you think you should have been?)

The things Dany is picking up from the Dothraki are interesting—that she would never let her son on the throne with only the Kingsguard around him, since they are so corruptible. She’s like Sansa in that she knows the stories and wants them to be true, but the difference is that Dany has grown up on the wrong side of the stories, so she is more practical in facing the world. She’s had no choice but to do so. Also interesting is that she’s already planning for the “real dragon” who rides into the Seven Kingdoms in front of the Dothraki horde to be someone besides her jackass brother. Can’t blame her there.

Readers, if leaving a comment for Elena please direct (@Elena) them at her – and lead your comments with your messages for her. Please do not direct spoilers from future books at her. Thanks!

–Do not read on if you have not read the series through A Feast for Crows and want to avoid spoilers–

Rachel-

I am not yet done with A Dance for Dragons. Sorry guys. You’ll have to wait another week or so until I’m done before you’ll see Dance inspired theories. I think that’s fair. So please, if you want to talk about stuff that happened in Dance do not direct it at me (or Elena). Because that would be mean and terrible and it will wake the dragon.

That being said I’m about half way through it and it is good. Which is one of the reasons I’d like us to go faster so that Elena can enjoy it some time before I’m dead.

Chapter 34 – Catelyn

LOL at the redshirts comment. Quick, can we get an ASOIAF-inspired redshirt pic? I’d do it but I’m too busy painting a life size Hipster Jon Snow on the back wall of my closet. I’m running out of black.

Maybe.

In my soul.

Ok I’ll stop. Onto the chapter!

“Sometimes she felt as though her heart had turned to stone…” Oh lady Stoneheart! That’s what I call foreshadowing! It’s funny to me that Cat is a pretty good judge of character, but she always comes to the wrong conclusions about the character she judges. She’s fine with letting Marillion accompany her to the Eyrie even though she names him a coward but Bronn, whose worth has been proven, is mistrusted because he fights for money. Then pay the man some money Lady Stark! Surely you have as much in promises as Tyrion does… but no. She just let’s him come and then ignores him. WHAT IS HER PROBLEM? (No sense of humor?) You want to keep Tyrion from wriggling his way to freedom? Take away all his tools. Don’t BE a tool. Ugh.

This is why people (me) wear Targaryen and Greyjoy t-shirts and not Stark t-shirts. It’s kind of embarrassing.

We get the introduction of the Blackfish who is probably the only normal Tully but he’s still got that ridiculous stubborn streak that makes him work for crazy people all because he told his brother to go eff himself. And Cat has that moment when she wants to tell the King’s Bastard with BLACK hair number 3 that, “Winter is Coming” and realizes that perhaps she’s more Stark than she is Tully. Judging by her totally useless relatives, I would say yes. Not that being a Stark will help you lady Stoneheart. Being a Stark just means that you get no peace, even in Death. (Whose sick idea was it to swap Robb and Greywind’s heads? THAT IS JUST WRONG. Also, can we pause for a minute and think about Rickon hiding in crypts because he likes it there? This family is screwed.) Elena is right to question where Cat will go from here. Clearly she’s going to be stuck in the Vale for a while. What Elena can’t predict is how DUMB both the Tully lasses will be by letting the Imp direct his own trial. Yes Cat has doubts about Tyrion’s guilt (but she’s STUBBORN) and Lysa is freaked out because she knows fuck all about any of this she just does what Petyr tells her to do and Petyr didn’t tell her what to do if Cat showed up with a Lannister prisoner – but hey le’ts go through with this trial anyways because if we don’t we have to admit we might be wrong. Which.. admittedly would also probably end badly for them.

The strength of this chapter, though, is in the world building. I find myself jealous of Ned and Robert. They got to grow up in this amazing location. Can you even IMAGINE? A place where castles perch ever higher in the clouds? The Vale sounds more like heaven in Westeros than any other locale. Done and done. Please sign me up for this new real-estate venture GRRM. I don’t even have to live up in the castles where it’s difficult to get food (haha… Catelyn has no pride…) I can live in the valleys and eat grapes or whatever. Yes.

I’m trying to avoid talking about Lysa and Sweet Robin. Two of the most revolting characters to ever grace these pages. What can be said about them? Neither have any redeeming qualities and it’s a shame they stick around for as long as they do. Maybe it is not such a shame. Revolting characters are fun to hate and they also make terrible decisions that turn that plot knife ever deeper into my black, eye-linered soul. Ahem.

Why does no one smack Lysa in the face and say, STOP BREAST FEEDING YOUR 6 YEAR-OLD SON! Why does this not happen? Why didn’t Jon Arryn demand this? Why doesn’t Cat tell her now? This is FAMILY. Sure she’s insane and might throw you out the moon door but she couldn’t have done squat in King’s Landing so why wasn’t she given limits when there were limits to give? Come ON Jon Arryn I’m starting to think you absolutely deserve to be dead. This place is better without you.

I’ve often tried to figure out whose fault it is that Robin has epilepsy. (it is epilepsy, right?) Cat seems to have been fully capable of bearing strong children so I don’t think it is Lysa’s gene pool however ridiculous she is. I’m going to lay the blame on Jon Arryn whose seed, it turns out, isn’t all that strong. What a little nightmare Robin is going to be. Maybe Littlefinger can whip him into shape? Maybe Littlefinger can throw him down some stairs?

Chapter 35 – Ned

I’m just going to take a moment and bask in the awesomeness that is Elena flipping her shit out over Ned’s inability to figure out that Joffrey isn’t Robert’s son. Check that out. That is some serious exclamation point having up there. Oh Elena, it will never get better. Just stop trying to understand and PAY MORE ATTENTION TO THE FLASHBACKS!

So Ned gets a few more stories about BLACK haired bastards and then the readers get some insights about Lyanna and really randomly, Rhaegar. Ok.. not so random if you can do basic algebra. R + L = J my friends. Yay Elena! You are right! If you are a bad reader and you are not actually re-reading and you read my sections anyways, I give you the gift of this theory. Use your powers for good. I’m really glad that Elena has finally clued to this. I told you it wouldn’t take her much longer. Now I can start messaging her ridiculous reasons why this theory is correct at 3 in the morning. I think I’ll start with the roses bit.

This chapter sticks with me because of how emotional Ned gets over Jory’s death. He really feels that. He’s so stiff when dealing with Littlefinger, he never even cracks a smile at all his jokes, and he carries about some undefined guilt/duty/honor bullshit about Lyanna and Jon and clearly this is all connected but like all good book POV characters Ned doesn’t think about situations with the 100% knowledge he actually has about the situation. Oh no, he thinks about shit in bits and pieces so that we are forever confused. Has Ned lied to himself for so long that certain things have become true that aren’t? What does he MEAN by that bastard comment? Come off it Ned, you HAVE no bastards. Are you talking about Robert then? The answer is booze. Are you commenting on Rhaegar? The answer is your sister’s vagina. I’m sorry to break it to you like this Ned, I know how much you do not find vaginas hilarious like Petyr does. Petyr would find this joke hilarious though, where is Petyr? Oh.. sauntering down the street looking up his arse for the King’s Guard while Jaime’s men KILL JORY. Poor Jory. But yeah, Ned is really emotional here. Maybe it’s because Jory was a true friend. Maybe he feels guilty he has failed his men this way. Maybe he’s pissed that he’s about to get caught up in a situation he can’t control or walk away from.

Maybe you should have come up with a better way of answering Jaime about Cat’s abduction of Tyrion. Something like.. “huh?”. Or, “prove it”. Anything besides, “I did that, it was me.” Don’t lie Ned! Nothing good ever happens when you lie!

Chapter 36 – Dany

Reading Dany chapters is kind of sweet. Dany is so naive and lovely. Her brother is terrible to her but she still has some clothing made so he’ll fit in. She still wants to help him and make his life easier and give him what he wants. Dany was a terrible tool for Viserys to have wasted like he did. To throw away her gift to him, abuse her maids and attack her just because he’s insecure and his non-existant power is threatened.

But the Dany that smacks Viserys in the face with a belt and chastises him for being a major SUCKFEST is the Dany we’ve come to know and love. She’s still adjusting, still growing into the confident Queen of Dragons we know is inside of her but this is one of those final steps towards that personae. Dany will always have Viserys’ voice inside her, telling her she’s worthless. We all have that, but her faith that she will make the correct decisions and the way she stands up for herself is what makes us root for Dany. She comes from a horrible family, conquerers, rapers, sister-marrying, murderers and yet we’re all, ‘Go Dany! The Rightful Queen of Westeros!” We’re excited for her when she brings dragons back into the world. Even if their magic will cause more death and destruction than their absence would. Why? Because we LIKE Dany.

Right now she’s just an innocent girl being controlled by conniving, power-hungry men but she KNOWS that and that is cool. Dany is one of the few characters in the novels that seems to really know the difference between right and wrong. Dany also seems to have the freedom from duty to actually DO what is right when she knows it is the right thing to do. It isn’t Dany’s duty to take back te iron throne, it is her wish. She has no duty to anyone but herself. She never lets anyone guilt her or pressure her. That’s really bad ass, especially in a story that is full of women making concessions to please the men around them. Dany, espcially after Drogo dies, pretty much starts making decisions based entirely upon what she wants. She LEARNS. Compare that to Catelyn Tully and the struggle she goes through inwardly as she tries to balance being the matriarch with being the oldest most experienced Stark. Those two roles don’t neccesarily mesh because she is a woman and it is not a woman’s place to make the decisions that ultimately go to Robb. Dany doesn’t allow anyone to make decisions for her. She let Viserys and Drogo do that and it brought her nothing but pain so she stops. She starts making decisions for herself and telling others what to do. It’s Queenly. That is why we root for her.

I am sad that Elena isn’t feeling as drawn to Dany as I am. Even when she’s taking a swing at her horrible brother and telling him to go eff himself? EVEN THEN ELENA? But.. but.. she’s got smart mouthed Jorah (who really DOES presume too much… I guess it’s because she likes him that Jorah gets to shit talk as much as he does). I laughed when Dany dissed Barristan, what she doesn’t know!

GRRM said at his book signing Q & A last week that he likes to experiments with POVs that are incorrect or misinformed. Now I’m having trouble trusting any memory or story as truth. Is Jorah correct about his wife? I feel like that story is told too many times in the same offhanded way to be true now. I don’t know! (remember – I’m not referencing anything about Dance at this point) What about the stories about the Targaryens? Why did they come to Westeros? Legends never tell the whole truth. Do we REALLY want a Queen on the Iron Throne who has crazy relatives who have commited horrible crimes? (In Rhaegar’s case.. crazy like a hot Robin Hood Fox!) These are things I ask myself and that I hope Dance will begin to answer. Should I be sad that Elena isn’t all Pro-Dany like I am? Is Dany just as crazy as her brother and Grandfather?

A dangerous precipice to walk. Damn you GRRM! You fill my brain with doubts!

Just as long as you don’t mess with my algebra!

That’s it, folks. Remember we’re on a 3-chapters-a-week schedule now. Hopefully we’ll move this along a little more quickly so that we get finished before season 2 of the show hits and Elena won’t get into even more trouble for spoiling herself. (HA!)

<– Go Back And Read Our Thoughts On Chapter 33: Eddard

Move On To Chapters 37-39: Bran, Tyrion, Eddard –>