Playin with Ice and Fire: A Game of Thoughts: Catelyn, Jon, Tyrion (Chapters 40-42)
She’s new, she’s the re-re-reader. She’s the nubile newbie, she’s the spoilery vet. Together they’re g-mashin’ George R.R. Martin’s A Game of Thrones and getting their POV on. Today they hit chapters 40-42.
Elena –
Chapter 40 – Catelyn
I have only two words to say about this chapter: wah, wah…..
Kidding!
Sort of.
The thrust of this chapter? Catelyn doesn’t suck as much as her sister. She makes good sense in relation to Lysa (even if she’s still out there with respect to the real world):
- “The dwarf has played her like a set of pipes, and she is too deaf to hear the tune.”
- Lysa’s policies varied with her moods, and her moods changed hourly.
- “Alive, the Imp has value. Dead, he is only food for crows.”
- “What will we gain by the dwarf’s death?”
- Lysa had named Cersei in the letter…but now she seemed certain that Tyrion was the killer…perhaps because the dwarf was here.
- Catelyn almost wished she had burned her sister’s letter before reading it.
- No, Catelyn wanted to tell him, it’s only now beginning.
Unfortunately she ruins that streak of being the unlikely voice of reason (yes, you can insert the song from The Soup there) by reminding us that she just always has to be right when she corrects the maester about young Robert’s foster arrangements. Um, really Catelyn? You can’t possibly think the fucking maester of the house might have been privy to information you were not?
Also she reminds us that a real lady doesn’t think for herself, in her reverie of the duel between Brandon Stark and Petyr. Because her father had promised her to Brandon, she gave him her favor, even though she seemed to be against the duel and supposedly cared for Petyr. Ah, like mother, like (lame) daughter. I am almost sorry the Stark chirrens are unlikely to survive long enough for Arya to get into fights with Catelyn about her disposition and act out Lyanna style. You know she wouldn’t have put up with that kind of grandstanding by two dudes—and she damn well would have given her favor to the one she cared for. Also I don’t think Arya is the type to drift off into memories of yesteryear when, you know, the fate of the realm hinges on the fight going on.
Grander thoughts: apparently the gods and/or masculine culture of the Vale couldn’t deal with a strong woman, since they try and emasculate the story of Alyssa Arryn by making her cry for eternity. Because clearly it would not DO for a woman to, you know, not feel such things too deeply to get over or something.
I’m sure there are policy implications with Black Fish bailing on Lysa.
I’m sure some of those names dropped as suitors and volunteers to kill Tyrion are important. Eh. Let them prove it by showing up again later.
Bronn gets a badass alert for showing up in all black and so under-armored that he looked naked next to the knight. And then by delivering on the promise and killing him day-ead. Speaking of that scene, did anyone besides me get flashes of Monty Python’s Life of Brian when Bronn is running around the garden? Specifically the “Sunday afternoon children’s matinee at the Coliseum” scene where the little guy causes the big guy to have a heart attack from running too much. Because I totally drew that analogy, and it was funny. Because you have the smaller guy killing the big guy by wearing him out, and little Robert cheering like it really was the children’s matinee…. Okay, really? No takers on that one? L-a-m-e.
Is the fact that Bronn wins, after the gods are invoked, meant to be an implication that they do exist and do take an interest in the affairs of men? Or is Bronn simply a badass?
Tyrion didn’t really get to speak too much, so no axiom of the week. But he’s awesome just for making a joke even at the very end when he recognizes that Lysa’s kicking him out of the Vale via the road is “another sort of death sentence.”
Good thing Bronn is such a badass.
Chapter 41 – Jon
I am going to break one of my cardinal rules about this part of our reread and say THIS MADE SO MUCH MORE SENSE THAN THE WAY THE HBO SHOW HANDLED IT!
What am I referring to? (Did you really need to ask?) How Jon ends up a steward and not a ranger, obviously! Even though I’m getting ahead of myself to go there, sorry, but it was my overriding reaction to this chapter. The sense of, yes, Jon Snow, you brought that dispensation of your talents on yourself! Because when he shows up in the old maester’s room in the middle of the night he is (1) showing that he has initiative and (2) showing that he will not be intimidated or deterred by anyone, anything, or any circumstance. And why is he there? To talk about his friend Fat Sam (which, incidentally, makes him sound like my first cat who was a hugely fat tom I named after Sam in LOTR and which my father referred to as, yes, Fat Sam…), who was bullied and abused and whose value, while not obvious to most of his peers, must not be wasted. The fact that Jon is aware of Sam’s shortcomings but also his strengths shows that he sees more than one side of an issue. The fact that Jon sees letting Sam be abused to uselessness or death as a senseless waste of resources says that he has the sort of mind that makes the most of what it can find to work with. The fact that Jon bases an argument on the maester’s value for things like letters, learning, and accounting says that Jon himself values them. The fact that Jon understood his old maester’s lesson about the world needing all types implies that he is willing to look at every man and find his use, rather than bemoan his lack. Jon’s story about convincing the other boys who came in with him to protect Sam says that he is a natural leader his peers respect and follow. All of this adds up to a rare species in the North: someone who sees the big picture and can handle both the physical and the esoteric aspects of life on the Wall. So in the next chapter with Jon, when he’s sulking about being made into a steward, I reserve the right to laugh at him for bringing it on himself by drawing attention to his own strengths as a commodity when he was trying to help his friend.
Let’s see, what else…Alliser Thorne continues to miss opportunities for keen wit and settles for potty humor.
Kudos to Jon for wearing “Lord Snow” so well that Thorne went back to mocking his base parentage (or was this an implication that Thorne can’t make any other kind of joke on a regular basis?).
Aw, isn’t Jon so cute, holding out hope that Uncle Benji is still alive out there, somewhere. “I wish I knew how to quit you!” Oh, wait, wrong relationship….
The scene with Jon on the road was perfect. That passage epitomized the human reaction to making a huge commitment. Regardless of how much you want to commit or believe it is the right thing to do, the fact is that making that commitment by necessity closes off other avenues of life. In this case, for Jon, almost everything else life has to offer. I almost can’t believe he went ahead and went through with it rather than letting his horse run down that road. Poor bastard. I do hope Martin writes him out of that corner eventually.
I loved Jon’s reminder about what he assumes his mother’s situation was: “something dark and dishonorable” so that his father was “too ashamed to speak of her.” The fact that he has this attitude explains why no one, ever, never ever for-never ever questioned Ned’s story about the bastard being his issue. It was the most perfect cover story ever—so simply it was almost foolproof, and the alternative so outlandish that no one would ever consider it. The smartest moment Ned Stark ever had, as well as the most insightful into the standard human psyche….
Chapter 42 – Tyrion
Goodness, what a boring chapter, even if it was spent with one of my favorite characters. More history from Tyrion. This time it was his personal history rather than the history of the realm, but still. Kind of a do-nothing chapter. We learn nothing new. Bronn is out for himself, shocker! Spoiler alert, Tyrion can outsmart anyone, including a hill tribe, by sass, humor, and bribery with Lannister gold. Shagga likes axes…we get it.
The one new angle and the best moment of the chapter by far was the glimpse we finally get of Tyrion’s hatred toward his father and the fact that he hopes, possibly even intends, someday to pay Tywin back for the humiliations he visited upon his dwarf son.
“Thirteen or thirty or three, I would have killed the man who did that to me.”
Tyrion swung around to face him. “You may get that chance on day. Remember what I told you. A Lannister always pays his debts.”
We’ve heard him say he hates his father before; I don’t recall him speaking of revenge.
The rest of the chapter is just Tyrion explaining to us (not Bronn, however much Martin tries to make us think that) why he thought Bronn would fight for him—although this did have a hilarious depiction of the Starks and how they would view someone like Bronn—and the tragical history of Tyrion’s one true love and lost innocence. I think I’d have been more affected by that story if it hadn’t been spoiled for me via the show…instead the part I reacted to was, as I said above, Tyrion’s words about paying a debt to his father. Tyrion’s very character says he was disillusioned, harshly, early. This is an example of it. Horrible, yeah, but not really surprising.
And we get a list of the hillfolk’s ancestry. I’ll learn their names when they exist beyond a brief story arc.
Tyrion’s Axiom of the Week: “Half a man I may be, yet I have the courage to face my enemies.”
The one other moment I want to call out is Tyrion and Bronn having a Firefly moment. Specifically a Jayne moment.
“Why didn’t you turn on me, Jayne?”
“Money wasn’t good enough.”
“What happens when it is?”
“Well…that’ll be an interesting day.”
Luckily for Tyrion he has a weapon besides his force of personality, so he doesn’t have to be Mal Reynolds: “If the day ever comes when you’re tempted to sell me out, remember this, Bronn—I’ll match their price, whatever it is.”
I wonder what would happen to Tyrion if he ever ceased to have the protection of being a Lannister? How would he handle that? I expect he’d find a way to survive…but it would be a challenge if he couldn’t just buy his way out of every problem. Which, now that I think on it, is starting to seem as convenient as the “there’s a spell for that!” aspect of the last couple Harry Potter books….
Readers, if leaving a comment for Elena please direct (@Elena) them at her – and lead your comments with your messages for her. Please do not direct spoilers from future books at her. Thanks!
–Do not read on if you have not read the series through A Dance with Dragons and want to avoid spoilers.
Rachel -
Yay, we’re back from summer vacation! Hope you missed us! Let’s get on with it!
Chapter 40 – Catelyn
Oh Cat Cat Cat… finally thinkin’ with your noggin! You are the character I love to hate and it’s your surprising ability to burn through your own stupidity and have competent thoughts that makes me love you enough to hate you instead of just skipping your chapters altogether.
What? No.. I don’t do that.
Ever.
As always the most flak Elena and I get from yon readers is about our Cat hate. I want to point out a few things (The following is based in part upon a conversation I had with Elena recently about Cat) 1 – We know Cat isn’t real and is in fact a fictional character created by GRRM. 2 – Us hating on Cat does not constitute woman-hating or a rejection of “traditional” female roles.
I don’t hate on Cat because she’s a woman who doesn’t act like the virginal mother protector. I could give a rip. I hate on her because she’s dumb. And I hate on the dumb guys too! Dumb people in general. I don’t understand this whole movement to LIKE all the characters in the novel. As if not liking a character means not liking the books or GRRM. It’s FINE to dislike a character that is meant to be disliked. I can empathize with Catelyn, her frustration that she is not male in a male dominated world and that she has to passively watch events happen for the most part. She’s inexperienced when it comes to tactical moves (sighs Ned… sighs his headless neck) which to me is just a critique of the whole noble system at work. Why was an inexperienced person whose main job was to host, raise the daughters and close treaties with her maidenhood given command of any of the Stark forces? Oh.. because she is the noble daughter of a noble house and her son isn’t old enough or something, who knows. I’m sure there were people in Winterfell who were thinking, “wtf are we doing m’lady?” There are plenty of woman with martial power in these books, plenty of men without. When people step outside of their realm of knowledge or experience they fuck up. Guess what happens when you fuck up? People hate you. It’s NORMAL.
So anyways.. I hope that clears up where my hate is coming from. It’s just love you guys! And if you still want to send us emails and tweets telling us we’re wrong about Cat, that’s great! I like to see characters get the love they deserve!
Cat’s instincts are usually good, she just doesn’t ever make the correct decision in acting on those instincts. You want to leave the Vale and high-tail it back to Winterfell where your family and realm needs you? GREAT. GO! Instead she hangs around yelling about how Tyrion is her prisoner. At this point you should concede defeat. It wasn’t a great idea coming to the Vale. Hey, you thought your sister wasn’t a crazy person. That’s fair. But what is better? Letting Tyrion be killed or sent off with a story about how they tried to kill him. OR… perhaps rescuing him, getting on a boat for Winterfell and apologizing a lot? Tyrion is a man of logic. Help him! You made a mistake! FIX IT! Instead you let him be tried for crimes you pretty much don’t think he committed (murdering Lord Jon for example). OK Cat.. whatever. Go watch your family’s credibility crumble before your eyes. Let it be known that the first steps in pitting the realm against the North were sown when Catelyn allowed this trial to go forth. Sure she arrested Tyrion, but I think that could have been fixed.
Also, Ser Rodrik.. since when did you start taking orders from Lysa’s people? You serve your mistress and tell her when she’s got some damn mail!
I’m with Brynden. Leave!
Let’s talk about Elena’s comment that Bronn winning must mean that the Seven ruled in favor of Tyrion (who we know) is innocent. I’m kind of giving that comment the side eye. Personally, I don’t think the Seven exist. I think in the context of Westeros and from the reader’s POV that has read all the books so far… the Seven don’t exist. I don’t think they ever did. R’hllor? Maybe. Quite possibly. The Nameless one? Also probably. Where do gods like the Old Gods of the North or the Temple of Black and White or the Dothraki gods etc etc etc.. fit? At best they are aspects of the two gods that I think actually exist.. the god of Fire and the god of Blood. (R’hllor being a name for Fire, The Nameless one a “name” for Blood). I say this because of how the magics seem to come down. Fire.. Blood. Ice? Dunno? I think the zombies and the Faceless ones and the weirwoods are all aspects of Blood if that helps. What do you guys think? Do the Seven exist?
In the end that fight came down to deadly skill and maneuverability against tradition and resources. I don’t know what that says about the entire series in general, or if it should be applied that way. But if Tyrion is GRRM’s avatar in the series and a barometer of his personality, I’d say GRRM is going to side with skill and tactics over force of numbers and tradition. Yea? Plus Bronn IS a badass. And if Tyrion were killed at this point well.. that would make me sad. He’s got so many more terrible jokes to utter!
One last note: The story of Alyssa Arryn is one of those little asides that GRRM sticks into the story that does SO MUCH. We get a mini history of the Vale and the type of people and moralities preferred and punished. We get a story about a woman that is much like Catelyn in circumstances. It also describes the Vale more completely. It’s just a masterful bit of storytelling on GRRM’s part and I think it helps us get an insight into Catelyn as well. Also, terribly ominous foreshadowing.
Chapter 41 – Jon
Well darn, didn’t Elena just hit that chapter right on its head? She’s right on all counts. I know a lot of people don’t like Jon specifically because for a really long time nothing really happens. But I’ve always enjoyed his chapters because nothing really happens. You can actually spend a lot of time thinking about things that need explanation.
At its heart there are a lot of mysteries in Game of Thrones and Jon is one of those people primarily concerned with SOLVING those mysteries instead of running around and just surviving. Jon gets to have crazy adventures later but for right now, I think it’s important that we have a character who learns how everything works right along with us that isn’t a child. Jon sees beyond a child’s perspective to the big picture. Which helps when everything is so fragmented. There’s that wonderful passage in this chapter in which GRRM paints a picture, with the wall at the top of the world and everything else below and a single road connecting it all. Jon HAS perspective on the world and its problems. He just lacks information about what’s going on farther down that road. It’s not a bad place to be.
Until someone stabs you I mean.
It must have been a terrible decision for Jon to make. To turn towards the wall, full of people like Ser Alliser and worse, and call it “home”. All because he knows there isn’t anywhere else for him to be. Even if the truth about his parentage (as we all hope it to be anyways) doesn’t give him anywhere else to be! He’s either the bastard son of a noble house.. or he’s the bastard son of a noble but exiled house. FUN! Death or the wall my boy, which will it be?
As for Uncle Benjen.. well damn I don’t know. Who IS that guy? Is he evil? Is he dead for reals? Is he the animated puppet corpse of the scary dudes growing into trees? I DON’T FUGGING KNOW YOU GUYS. But I think Cold Hands is Benjen. Why else cover his face?
Chapter 42 – Tyrion
Ha! I am pointing at those last few sentences that Elena wrote and yelling “HA!” What DOES happen to Tyrion when he doesn’t have the protection of being a Lannister? Oh well.. it sucks actually and he decides it’s much better to be a Lannister so eff it. That’s what happens.
But I don’t think this a boring chapter! I love when Tyrion tells horrific stories from his past. Those are the best! Later when you find out that Tysha WASN’T a whore it just makes it that much worse! Tywin is EVIL you guys. And all these little moments help carry us to that wonderful moment when *twang* Tyrion kills his stupid dad! (stupid for entirely differet reasons than being dumb. Tywin is many things but lacking in brain power is definitely not one of them) YAY TYRION! Now run.
I think it makes the whole thing that much more sad when you imagine Bronn sharpening his sword and Tyrion telling Bronn this story and Tyrion is sort of choking up just telling him. Why are you telling Bronn this story anyways Tyrion? You need a friend! So badly! I guess Jaime was your only friend. Does Jaime also build you fires when you’re out doing brother stuff? So Tyrion is all, hey Bronn not only am I paying you for your sword but you’re going to be my friend now too OK? Great. You know when you meet a new friend-type person and they start over sharing and you have to be all sympathetic but you are also really REALLY judging them in your head but you can’t laugh or not listen because this new friend-type person is like.. a really good contact? Bronn. Master of networking.
Also… I REALLY HOPE TYSHA IS ALIVE. Only because if Tyrion ever does find where whores go and he goes there… and she’s this totally bitchy and not as pretty as he remembers whore who hates him for what his family did to her.. that’ll be really sad. Tyrion needs MORE sad stories!
I’m also grateful to GRRM for not making us sit through the tedious scene in which Tyrion collects his crap and actually leaves the Vale. Picking this up on the road was the perfect parallel to Cat’s chapter in which we the reader are just screaming at Cat to get the hell out of dodge. Tyrion puts good ideas into immediate action. Thus the living and jaunty jokes and greasy goat licking and Shagga thinking he’s funny. I’m just surprised all these people in Westeros are willing to take IOUs from Tyrion all the time.
About Elena Nola and Rachel Parker: Elena Nola is the imperial editrix for the BSC empire. She likes genre books, weird movies, and obscure references. She lives in New Orleans, where almost every day is good enough for good times. You can follow her reviews and commentaries all over this site and via twitter @Boomtron. Contrary to dogma, Rachel Parker is the mind-killer. She is a nerd, writer, and art historian living in Brooklyn, NY. You can read more of her posts at scienceofdiscontent.blogspot.com, or follow @DarthRachel on twitter.