True. On the other hand, the GoT world has been stuck at medieval level for quite a long time. Versailles vs Mycenae is comparing two different cultures at two vastly different stages of Economic, Social, and Technological development.

(To compare, the Red Keep is about 300 years old, which means if the story happened today, it was built during the Salem Witch trials. Also the time period of the great castle building is the 13-15th century or about 300 years. In other words, the Red Keep should be becoming obsolete as a military fortification.)

So, where am I going with this? I’m not sure, I think I just started wonking out about history for bit there. ah yes, the point.

I always considered the Red Keep and Winterfell to be comparable based on medieval Stasis.

@Megaduck

I’m thinking building to building. I know that Winterfell includes outbuildings and a little village but due to its age I would expect the older structure to be smaller. I mean.. I’ve toured lots of ancient city ruins and they’re all shockingly small. The fact that the Red Keep is smaller than Winterfell proper.. is just suprising to me. I felt like it would be more like Versailles vs Mycenae.

**spoilers**

@Koby

Aww yes, Quaithe is TOTALLY in on this. I’m with you.

If I do a first-time reading on the rest of the books, it will be more like what Rachel does with dune – several chapters at once. even though i think the future books could continue to be dissected this way, it’s just not feasible for my time to spend…uh…8-10 years on it. lol.

but yeah this is definitely a series where you don’t appreciate everything there on the first time through, and i’ve never been the type to only read a good book once. 🙂

The second Bran chapter where he goes climbing (and “falling”) gives a good sense of the scale of Winterfell and how much of it is unoccupied. Also, I believe an earlier chapter mentioned that three acres of Godswood had been encircled by the fortress in its earliest days. Brandon the Builder indeed.

Thanks to your series of posts and the imminent fifth volume I’m in the middle of a re-read of the series. Otherwise I won’t know my Jeyne Pooles from my Beth Cassels.

I like that you are already planning a reread – that’s the spirit! How about the other three (very soon four) books? Will you be doing this kind of readthrough or something a bit more casual?

Regarding the eggs: If it was Varys’s idea, don’t forget his supposed life story of being castrated by some magician. If anybody would know about magic and stuff, it would be Varys. It seems to fit his personality that after being hurt by it, he’d learn all he can about it in order to combat it. Maybe he figured out that dragon eggs can be brought to life with Fire and Blood, or learned something about Asshai. I have a theory that Quaithe of the Shadow may also be involved with that whole conspiracy.

Jurassic Dungeon, love it!

Well, I’m glad I’m not the only one who didn’t put two and two together on this one. 🙂 I think I’ll wait and let it click into place when it clicks into place (I assume it must at some point, either later in the book/series or on a re-read). Thanks though!

this (minus the part about the ages) is why that line didn’t make me blink. i thought it more in terms of open country vs city, though–the red keep is locked in by the city. it can only grow vertically, one direction or the other. Winterfell is in the middle of buttfucking nowhere, it can sprawl as much as it wants or needs to.

“ps – Winterfell is bigger than the Red Keep? WHAT? Totally blocked that out. Now I have to reimagine everything.”

I believe it. For starters the Red Keep is all squished up on a peninsula. It’s boxed in by the ocean, the river, and the city. Winterfell is on open ground, it can sprawl.

Secondly, The Red Keep is a few hundred years old, Winterfell is a few thousand years old. Ok, maybe a slight exaggeration but WInterfell is much older and combined with the more open ground there is more space for additions, and expansions, and rebuilding throughout it’s history rather then the Red Keep that was built all at once.

Thirdly, the Red Keep was designed as a palace and fortress for men while Winterfell is primarily designed to defend against… well… winter. Winterfell has giant granaries, and green houses, and hot springs and is designed to pull everyone in the surrounding area into it and keep them there for years if need be. In other words the Red Keep has the city outside it’s walls but Winterfell keeps the city inside it’s walls.

I would imagine though that the Red Keep is a much more labyrinthine and confusing structure and easy to get lost in because it’s all twisted up in itself. (Sort of like the politics) But in terms of raw volume? I have no problem thinking that Winterfell has more of that.