lord – well, no, they can’t but that’s no excuse for the ones who don’t being so insipid and weak.

deborah – that is an interesting point about her character. it has not come through that way, except in her courteousness to the hound, but i will read scenes with her with this in mind from now on. you may well be right that kindness is meant to be her redeeming feature.

Hm…i think i took the “thought she’d have gotten over it by now” more seriously than you seem to. I really think he thought she would start learning sword play, realize it’s hard work and not nearly as glamorous as she’d thought, and give up. like i think he thought she had sansa-vision for what swordplay was, not the dedication of an olympian athlete to do whatever it took…including chasing cats. and if he questioned the method, he could ask why she was doing those things…it makes sense to arya that she needs to be nimble, fast, sneaky, able to balance on a knife-edge. it makes sense for the bravosi style, but not the westeros knight style.

that is a really good way to sum him up. he’s like Marianne in Sense and Sensibility: “never does anything by half-measures.”

Yes, it certainly seems like by accident or design Robert ended up with no one in his life who would still tell him the truth, or things he didn’t want to hear…like grow the hell up already. And it seems like he made a habit of not wanting to hear them, for sure.

It’s not that Ned wants her to “get over it” so to speak. He knows that she never will, he went through the same thing with his sister.

When Jon made the sword, he had it made in the Braavosi style, so Ned got her a Braavosi swordmaster. But now he’s got her running around chasing cats and standing on staircases. So Ned figures it’d be better to get her a “proper” swordsman, like Ser Barristan, who, btw, is the most famous swordfighter in the land, and well respected by everyone. If Ned thought that “women shouldn’t fight and she’ll just grow out of it” he wouldn’t ask Barristan as it would be a major insult.

So it’s not sexism, just good old fashioned arrogance.

While it doesn’t come out as much in the first book, one of the things that is most likable about Sansa is that she is truly a kind character. Might come from all she goes through, but kindness is rare in this world.

Apologies if this came out sounding rough! I was serious about wanting information, not trying to be antagonistic!

@Deborah

**spoilers**

Well as much as I want that to be a truth, it’s still debatable.

And yea.. heck yea. Hide him in plain sight!

*** Spoilers up there!!!****

forgot

@Scott

Yea. It’s hard for me to believe that the scheming runs so thick that Hugh was ordered killed, I see how it would throw people off of Littlefinger’s scent (esp if Ser Hugh knew anything at all about Lysa’s part in everything..). It just feels clumsy to pay someone a lot of money (I assume since he could afford his armor) and then have him killed.

Anyways.. I always felt like maybe Gregor just felt like ruining a cocky boys day and it just happened to be relevant to Jon Arryn’s death.

***Spoilers***

@Anders

It would actually be a pretty amazing thing if Sansa became a bit of a schemer. I could def hop on board with that. I’m sick of her being a victim. It was old by the end of the first book and suffering through her various tortures has totally exhausted me. I could use a different side to Sansa.

” Ned could have sent Jon to be Robert’s squire.”

If he could have, then why did he and Cat argue about Jon going south with him? Ned specifically states how bastards are treated, and objects that there wouldn’t be a place for Jon there. I’d like to know what examples you have of northern bastards inheriting anything, as it’s stated over and over that a bastard cannot inherit.

In the case of Ramsey Snow, he stole Lady Hornwood’s land and titles. Anything else he gets is due to his being legitimized by a royal decree. Robert could have done this for Jon, and might have if Ned had asked. But there’s something about the pride of names and bloodlines that makes me think Robert would have refused a squire request.

Besides that, if theory turns out to be true, why would he want Jon anywhere near Robert?

@Rachel: (spoilers) I actually like AFFC Sansa quite a bit. Most of her illusions have been stripped away and through her anonymity she also looses the sense of entitlement that makes her less than likable through the first books. She seems like a sweet girl that learns all the time. I’ll be interested in seeing if she manages to get herself away from Littlefinger’s influence at some point, because that will be her big challenge. Petyr told Ned not to trust ANYONE, but Ned ended up trusting Littlefinger. Now he is teaching Sansa to scheme, will she repeat Neds mistake and trust the one person she definitely cannot trust, Littlefinger?